#651 From: Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@...>
Date: Wed Mar 5, 2003 8:58 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Once a Month Progress Report? ben_ravago
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Sorry. Just remove the '.' at the end of the URL.
Like this http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd
Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
>
> > Also, the l4hurd link is http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd.
> > There are references here to some work being done
> > on a "Device Driver Environment".
> >
> I received a not found error message when I clicked
> on the above.
>
> TomLeeM
>
Part 22 - Jan 26 2003
Re: Part 22
#652 From: "evgen_ek" <evgen_k@...>
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? evgen_ek
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@o...>
wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
> MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
> projects (use the source code and adapt it to
> create a version of or an alternative to
> presentation manager?).
We have already working kernel ? or almost have almost working almost
kernel ?
As for me - one small step to layers etc. was done. Mesa3D for OS2+PM
has now separate "device driver" for PM
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? evgen_ek
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@o...>
wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
> MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
> projects (use the source code and adapt it to
> create a version of or an alternative to
> presentation manager?).
We have already working kernel ? or almost have almost working almost
kernel ?
As for me - one small step to layers etc. was done. Mesa3D for OS2+PM
has now separate "device driver" for PM
Re: Part 22
#653 From: "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@...>
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 9:19 pm
Subject: Re: Once a Month Progress Report? tomleem7659
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@v...> wrote:
> Sorry. Just remove the '.' at the end of the URL.
> Like this http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd
>
>
> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
>
> >
> > > Also, the l4hurd link is http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd.
> > > There are references here to some work being done
> > > on a "Device Driver Environment".
> > >
> > I received a not found error message when I clicked
> > on the above.
> >
> > TomLeeM
> >
Now it works. Thanks.
TomLeeM
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 9:19 pm
Subject: Re: Once a Month Progress Report? tomleem7659
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@v...> wrote:
> Sorry. Just remove the '.' at the end of the URL.
> Like this http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd
>
>
> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
>
> >
> > > Also, the l4hurd link is http://www.nongnu.org/l4hurd.
> > > There are references here to some work being done
> > > on a "Device Driver Environment".
> > >
> > I received a not found error message when I clicked
> > on the above.
> >
> > TomLeeM
> >
Now it works. Thanks.
TomLeeM
Re: Part 22
#654 From: Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@...>
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? ben_ravago
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> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
>MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
>projects (use the source code and adapt it to
>create a version of or an alternative to
>presentation manager?).
In a microkernel environment the critical issue
would be if the presentation system could be
set up to 'run' independent of any OS personality
(Linux, OS2, POSIX, etc.) and so be able to offer
presentation services to any OS personality that
needed it. MiniGui, for example, is written
against Linux API's and so would really be a
Linux app that would run in the Linux personality.
I think most GUI toolkits/stacks are like this,
written against some OS environment and so might
be hard to adapt. MicroWindows might be easier
to adapt since it's designed to be portable and
so maybe the OS dependencies are well isolated.
Another possibility would be SciTech's SNAP
technology (they're about to open-source it)
in combination with some other GUI toolkit.
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 10:07 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? ben_ravago
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> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
>MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
>projects (use the source code and adapt it to
>create a version of or an alternative to
>presentation manager?).
In a microkernel environment the critical issue
would be if the presentation system could be
set up to 'run' independent of any OS personality
(Linux, OS2, POSIX, etc.) and so be able to offer
presentation services to any OS personality that
needed it. MiniGui, for example, is written
against Linux API's and so would really be a
Linux app that would run in the Linux personality.
I think most GUI toolkits/stacks are like this,
written against some OS environment and so might
be hard to adapt. MicroWindows might be easier
to adapt since it's designed to be portable and
so maybe the OS dependencies are well isolated.
Another possibility would be SciTech's SNAP
technology (they're about to open-source it)
in combination with some other GUI toolkit.
Re: Part 22
#655 From: "Kenn Yuill" <kenn.yuill@...>
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 1:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? kenn.yuill@...
Send Email Send Email
** Reply to note from "Lynn H. Maxson" <lmaxson@...> **
** Dated Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) **
You have the need to offer a version of OS/2 whose
applications execute concurrently with those of another OS
like Windows or Linux or both.
Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and providing some
insight into this and other projects of this type for non-programmers
such as myself.
As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
--
Ciao,
Kenn
__________________________________________________________
Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
- Kenn Yuill
Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
__________________________________________________________
- A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
We are more often frightened than hurt,
and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
- Marcus Annaeus Seneca
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 1:54 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? kenn.yuill@...
Send Email Send Email
** Reply to note from "Lynn H. Maxson" <lmaxson@...> **
** Dated Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) **
You have the need to offer a version of OS/2 whose
applications execute concurrently with those of another OS
like Windows or Linux or both.
Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and providing some
insight into this and other projects of this type for non-programmers
such as myself.
As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
--
Ciao,
Kenn
__________________________________________________________
Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
- Kenn Yuill
Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
__________________________________________________________
- A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
We are more often frightened than hurt,
and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
- Marcus Annaeus Seneca
Re: Part 22
#656 From: "Kenn Yuill" <kenn.yuill@...>
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? kenn.yuill@...
Send Email Send Email
** Reply to note from "Lynn H. Maxson" <lmaxson@...> **
** Dated Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) **
You have the need to offer a version of OS/2 whose
applications execute concurrently with those of another OS
like Windows or Linux or both.
Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and providing some
insight into this and other projects of this type for non-programmers
such as myself.
As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
--
Ciao,
Kenn
__________________________________________________________
Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
- Kenn Yuill
Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
__________________________________________________________
- A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
We are more often frightened than hurt,
and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
- Marcus Annaeus Seneca
Date: Thu Mar 6, 2003 10:41 pm
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? kenn.yuill@...
Send Email Send Email
** Reply to note from "Lynn H. Maxson" <lmaxson@...> **
** Dated Wed, 05 Mar 2003 07:49:27 -0800 (PST) **
You have the need to offer a version of OS/2 whose
applications execute concurrently with those of another OS
like Windows or Linux or both.
Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and providing some
insight into this and other projects of this type for non-programmers
such as myself.
As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
--
Ciao,
Kenn
__________________________________________________________
Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
- Kenn Yuill
Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
__________________________________________________________
- A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
We are more often frightened than hurt,
and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
- Marcus Annaeus Seneca
Re: Part 22
#657 From: "Lynn H. Maxson" <lmaxson@...>
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 4:25 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? lynnmaxson
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Kenn Yuill writes:
"Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and
providing some insight into this and other projects of this type
for non-programmers such as myself. As I read this thread, it
seems that the OS being offered would not longer be OS/2 but
one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to run DOS &
Windows programs, IIRC."
It can't stay OS/2 alone and survive in the long haul. So it
must somehow become OS/2 plus. In this instance plus Linux
or Windows or both. That means that neither Linux nor
Windows would remain the same either. They would become
plus systems as well.
Every OS possesses its own microkernel, a set of lowest level
functions on which other functions rely in common. When we
talk of microkernel we are speaking of one function set for
use by multiple OS personalities to allow them to execute
concurrently.
The only "gotcha" when considering multiple OS personalities
with individual, thus not common, graphical user interfaces lies
in having a similar microkernel-like basis in presentation
services which allows the GUIs to co-exist and execute
concurrently. So far no one no one has demonstrated this nor
specified any standard means of doing so which we could
probe.
The best I could come up with has a small desktop window
whose only icons represent desktops of active OS instances.
That would mean the user would have to switch from one
desktop to another. Something similar to this exists with
object Desktop from Stardock.
The point is that until we have some confidence in an
acceptable solution or until we know that no such acceptable
solution exists, continuing the remainder of the project makes
no sense. Just generating another open source, OS
standalone clone whether free or not addresses none of the
major handicaps OS/2 suffers with respect to applications or
device drivers.
I suspect that we should shift our focus from replacing OS/2
with an open source version to looking at the opportunities
open source provides for applications and device drivers. We
haven't as a community, for example, picked up on enhancing
StarOffice by maintaining document interchange with M$
Office. We have any number of opportunities simply suffering
from the lack of volunteer effort.
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 4:25 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? lynnmaxson
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Kenn Yuill writes:
"Firstly, thank you for removing your lurking cloak and
providing some insight into this and other projects of this type
for non-programmers such as myself. As I read this thread, it
seems that the OS being offered would not longer be OS/2 but
one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to run DOS &
Windows programs, IIRC."
It can't stay OS/2 alone and survive in the long haul. So it
must somehow become OS/2 plus. In this instance plus Linux
or Windows or both. That means that neither Linux nor
Windows would remain the same either. They would become
plus systems as well.
Every OS possesses its own microkernel, a set of lowest level
functions on which other functions rely in common. When we
talk of microkernel we are speaking of one function set for
use by multiple OS personalities to allow them to execute
concurrently.
The only "gotcha" when considering multiple OS personalities
with individual, thus not common, graphical user interfaces lies
in having a similar microkernel-like basis in presentation
services which allows the GUIs to co-exist and execute
concurrently. So far no one no one has demonstrated this nor
specified any standard means of doing so which we could
probe.
The best I could come up with has a small desktop window
whose only icons represent desktops of active OS instances.
That would mean the user would have to switch from one
desktop to another. Something similar to this exists with
object Desktop from Stardock.
The point is that until we have some confidence in an
acceptable solution or until we know that no such acceptable
solution exists, continuing the remainder of the project makes
no sense. Just generating another open source, OS
standalone clone whether free or not addresses none of the
major handicaps OS/2 suffers with respect to applications or
device drivers.
I suspect that we should shift our focus from replacing OS/2
with an open source version to looking at the opportunities
open source provides for applications and device drivers. We
haven't as a community, for example, picked up on enhancing
StarOffice by maintaining document interchange with M$
Office. We have any number of opportunities simply suffering
from the lack of volunteer effort.
Re: Part 22
#658 From: Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@...>
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 4:29 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? ben_ravago
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> Kenn Yuill wrote:
>
>As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
>longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
>run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
I'm not sure that QNX is a microkernel or that it
can "run DOS & Windows programs". However, I can
see where you might feel that what's being discussed
here "would not longer be OS/2". Certainly, it
wouldn't be IBM's type of OS/2 because it wouldn't
be a monolithic OS. In a microkernel implementation,
the server parts make their services available to all
comers. OS personalities repackage these services
via API's and so make these underlying services available
to regular application programs.
An OS/2 personality would make a memory service
available as "DosAllocSharedMem()", for example,
while a Win32 personality would use "GlobalAlloc()".
In an mk environment, these personalities could be
running together in the same box concurrently or
alone since the core memory service is separate
from either.
I don't think we're suggesting, though, that this
project write personalities other than OS/2. So in
some sense it would still be an OS/2 "clone".
>
> --
> Ciao,
> Kenn
> __________________________________________________________
> Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
> - Kenn Yuill
> Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
> OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
> __________________________________________________________
>
> - A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
>
> We are more often frightened than hurt,
> and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
> - Marcus Annaeus Seneca
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
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Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 4:29 am
Subject: Re: Re: [freeos] MicroWindows or MiniGUI with FreeOS? ben_ravago
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> Kenn Yuill wrote:
>
>As I read this thread, it seems that the OS being offered would not
>longer be OS/2 but one akin to QNX with its microkernel and ability to
>run DOS & Windows programs, IIRC.
I'm not sure that QNX is a microkernel or that it
can "run DOS & Windows programs". However, I can
see where you might feel that what's being discussed
here "would not longer be OS/2". Certainly, it
wouldn't be IBM's type of OS/2 because it wouldn't
be a monolithic OS. In a microkernel implementation,
the server parts make their services available to all
comers. OS personalities repackage these services
via API's and so make these underlying services available
to regular application programs.
An OS/2 personality would make a memory service
available as "DosAllocSharedMem()", for example,
while a Win32 personality would use "GlobalAlloc()".
In an mk environment, these personalities could be
running together in the same box concurrently or
alone since the core memory service is separate
from either.
I don't think we're suggesting, though, that this
project write personalities other than OS/2. So in
some sense it would still be an OS/2 "clone".
>
> --
> Ciao,
> Kenn
> __________________________________________________________
> Always act as if life is a joyous journey.
> - Kenn Yuill
> Polarbar Team - Tester & Eternal Newbie
> OS/2 Warp4 FP15 DD2, IBM JDK 1.1.8, PbM 1.25rc9 (Bld.1961)
> __________________________________________________________
>
> - A Thought for Today - 06 Mar 2003
>
> We are more often frightened than hurt,
> and we suffer more from imagination than from reality.
> - Marcus Annaeus Seneca
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> osFree-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: Part 22
#659 From: "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@...>
Date: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? tomleem7659
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@o...>
wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
> MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
> projects (use the source code and adapt it to
> create a version of or an alternative to
> presentation manager?).
>
> http://www.microwindows.org
> http://www.minigui.org
>
> TomLeeM
My thinking was more of a version of either
microwindows or minigui working on top of OS/2
(being compared to the earlier versions where it
was a command line os like DOS?) like Windows 3.1
was on top of DOS? I guess since OS/2 has its own
window type software/program, this would not really
make sense. My thoughts was to use either microwindows
or minigui as alternative to presentation manager (I
guess my understanding of the situation is quite limited).
TomLeeM
Date: Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? tomleem7659
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--- In osFree@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Lee Mullins" <jerseywarp@o...>
wrote:
> Could one use a version of MicroWindows or
> MiniGui with OSFree? They are open source
> projects (use the source code and adapt it to
> create a version of or an alternative to
> presentation manager?).
>
> http://www.microwindows.org
> http://www.minigui.org
>
> TomLeeM
My thinking was more of a version of either
microwindows or minigui working on top of OS/2
(being compared to the earlier versions where it
was a command line os like DOS?) like Windows 3.1
was on top of DOS? I guess since OS/2 has its own
window type software/program, this would not really
make sense. My thoughts was to use either microwindows
or minigui as alternative to presentation manager (I
guess my understanding of the situation is quite limited).
TomLeeM
Re: Part 22
#660 From: Ben Ravago <ben.ravago@...>
Date: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? ben_ravago
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> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
>
>My thinking was more of a version of either
>microwindows or minigui working on top of OS/2
>(being compared to the earlier versions where it
>was a command line os like DOS?) like Windows 3.1
>was on top of DOS? I guess since OS/2 has its own
>window type software/program, this would not really
>make sense. My thoughts was to use either microwindows
>or minigui as alternative to presentation manager
You would use microwindows or minigui as an alternative
to both PM and GPI and most likely WPS, as well. I think
both microwindows and minigui are complete presentation
service stacks (from drivers to widgets) so one should
be able to port them to OS/2 similar to the way XFree86
was ported.
Date: Tue Mar 11, 2003 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Re: OSFree and MicroWindows or MiniGui? ben_ravago
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> Thomas Lee Mullins wrote:
>
>My thinking was more of a version of either
>microwindows or minigui working on top of OS/2
>(being compared to the earlier versions where it
>was a command line os like DOS?) like Windows 3.1
>was on top of DOS? I guess since OS/2 has its own
>window type software/program, this would not really
>make sense. My thoughts was to use either microwindows
>or minigui as alternative to presentation manager
You would use microwindows or minigui as an alternative
to both PM and GPI and most likely WPS, as well. I think
both microwindows and minigui are complete presentation
service stacks (from drivers to widgets) so one should
be able to port them to OS/2 similar to the way XFree86
was ported.