Part 20 - Oct 16 2002

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#581 From: "Josй Francisco Garcнa Mtz." <jfgarcia@...>
Date: Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:30 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? jfgarcia_mx
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evgen_ek wrote:

>>
>>PS Anyone knows whatever happened to that developer?
>>
>>
>Here I am
>
It's great to have with us in this group/proyect! .

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#582 From: "gaynullin" <elf@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:16 am
Subject: Re: WarpMesaGL? gaynullin
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> >how do the makers of 3d hardware expose the
interfaces to accelerate
> >their cards?,
> >
> Through DirectX and OpenGL - and through their
own drivers.
> >could a developer create a layer using todays
> >architecture (GRADD, DIVE, enDIVE)to comunicate
with those interfaces?
> >what about a bypass?
> >
> And how exactly are you going to synchronize 2D
and 3D operations?

Yes, this can't be done effectively, if 2D driver
has no knowledge about presence of 3D part. So it's
near to impossible to made 3D support as addition
to SDD/SNAP (at least it can be very slow).

> You can't have a separate 2D and 3D driver. For
overlays it barely
> works. For 3D, forget it.

Agree completely. I think about HW 3D for OS/2 FS
environment (i.e. GREDeath and than HW in my hands)
Possibly, availability of 3rd-party 3D drivers can
slightly push Scitech to made this work, as for
overlay case? )

>
> >I have no the knowledge nor the time to
understand it all, but my
> >experience is that everything is posible with
enough resources and
> >knowledge.
> >
> Yes. They are not there in the OS/2 community.
>
> 3D is not something hobbyists can do. Look at
Linux. The only good
> 3D drivers are closed source, supplied by the HW
vendors.

Yes, but home-maded drivers better, than nothing.

Valery Gaynullin

[admin]

#583 From: "Michal Necasek" <michaln@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:24 am
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? michalnec
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:16:55 -0000, gaynullin wrote:

>Agree completely. I think about HW 3D for OS/2 FS
>environment (i.e. GREDeath and than HW in my hands)
>
That is a possibility.

>Possibly, availability of 3rd-party 3D drivers can
>slightly push Scitech to made this work, as for
>overlay case? )
>
Anything's possible.

>Yes, but home-maded drivers better, than nothing.
>
OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
what would you _do_ with it?


Michal

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#584 From: "JMA" <mail@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:47 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? mailjmase
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On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:24:05 -0800 (PST), Michal Necasek wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 07:16:55 -0000, gaynullin wrote:
>
>>Agree completely. I think about HW 3D for OS/2 FS
>>environment (i.e. GREDeath and than HW in my hands)
>>
> That is a possibility.
>
>>Possibly, availability of 3rd-party 3D drivers can
>>slightly push Scitech to made this work, as for
>>overlay case? )
>>
> Anything's possible.
>
>>Yes, but home-maded drivers better, than nothing.
>>
> OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
>3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
>what would you _do_ with it?
>
Play all great OS/2 3D games ofcource

Well, possibly it could be used to run Windows games
with Odin but...

I think there are much more important things.





Med vдnlig hдlsning

Martin Alfredsson (martin@...)
---------------------------------------------------
JMA
Fabriksgatan 38-42
412 51 Gцteborg
Tel: 070 - 627 84 10
Web: http://www.jma.se/jma/
---------------------------------------------------

[admin]

#585 From: "pinoozzyid" <pinoozzyid@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: WarpMesaGL? pinoozzyid
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--- In osFree@y..., "evgen_ek" <evgen_k@r...> wrote:
> Hi,
> --- In osFree@y..., "pinoozzyid" <pinoozzyid@y...> wrote:
> > Since there is a post about crystalspace (there was a port working for
> > OS/2 a couple years back), I would like to know what happened to the
> > port of Mesa.
> > There was a very promising version back in 2001, but then the
> > developer went silence(http://www.laser.ru/soft/WarpMesaGL/) and the
> > link to the port is no longer available.
>
> It was died after 1Tb JFS failure at itep
No backup? . Not really, there isn't a trace of that development left?
>
> > I wonder if a wiz developer could add hardware acceleration to this
> > port. What would be needed?, can it be implemented as a endive
> > filter?, can warpoverlay be use?, how do the makers of 3d hardware
> > expose the interfaces to accelerate their cards?, are those standard
> > interfaces?, could a developer create a layer using todays
> > architecture (GRADD, DIVE, enDIVE)to comunicate with those interfaces?
> > what about a bypass?
> GRADD and DIVE/enDIVE can't add any fast 3D operations

Why is that? (in simple terms)
>
> >
> > I have no the knowledge nor the time to understand it all, but my
> > experience is that everything is posible with enough resources and
> > knowledge.
> >
> > PS Anyone knows whatever happened to that developer?
> Here I am

Great!
>
> I just start to play with latest Mesa3D v5 (previous was 3.3) and it
> is quite possible that cool author of WV overlay will start play with
> some 3D hardware.
>
> I hope that in some form it will work and I want to make it one of key
> features of FreePM project. You can find us at #os2russian and/or at
> #freepm
>
> SY,
> EK

Thanks for the reply

Leonardo Pino

[admin]

#586 From: "Josй Francisco Garcнa Mtz." <jfgarcia@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? jfgarcia_mx
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Michal Necasek wrote:

>>Yes, but home-maded drivers better, than nothing.
>>
>>
>>
> OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
>3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
>what would you _do_ with it?
>
Games! Yes!

[admin]

#587 From: "pinoozzyid" <pinoozzyid@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:18 pm
Subject: Re: WarpMesaGL? pinoozzyid
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> OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
> 3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
> what would you _do_ with it?
>
>
> Michal

This is an ethernal problem on OS/2, the chicken and the egg. But in
this case at least we had the programs before the feature and the lack
of the feature killed all the programs. ESCGL and some company that
were only able to come up with a demo of a rubik cube, but their page
stated that they were working on more software.
In those cases the software and the intentions were there to produce
programs but obviously they had no chance without 3D HW. Besides by
now there are at least a couple of games ported to OS/2 that could
very well benefit from 3D HW, and maybe it would convince people to
port more of them.

Personaly I bought ESCGL and I use it till today (v2.0, v2.1, v2.2 and
v3.0) and I would buy a quality software that offered 3D HW.

Leonardo Pino

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#588 From: "Michal Necasek" <michaln@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:33 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? michalnec
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:31:16 +0100, Josй Francisco Garcнa Mtz. wrote:

>> OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
>>3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
>>what would you _do_ with it?
>>
>Games! Yes!
>
What games? I don't see any.

Please try to be realistic, okay?


Michal

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#589 From: "Michal Necasek" <michaln@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? michalnec
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 13:47:35 +0100, JMA wrote:

>> OK, let's put it like this: If you had fully accelerated
>>3D on OS/2 (say, OpenGL, with all the bells and whistles),
>>what would you _do_ with it?
>>
>Play all great OS/2 3D games ofcource
>
Of which there are none?

>Well, possibly it could be used to run Windows games
>with Odin but...
>
Who's going to do the work? Odin is now nearly abandoned.

>I think there are much more important things.
>
Than 3D? I fully agree


Michal

[admin]

#590 From: "Michal Necasek" <michaln@...>
Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:38 pm
Subject: Re: Re: WarpMesaGL? michalnec
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 18:18:26 -0000, pinoozzyid wrote:

>In those cases the software and the intentions were there to produce
>programs but obviously they had no chance without 3D HW. Besides by
>now there are at least a couple of games ported to OS/2 that could
>very well benefit from 3D HW, and maybe it would convince people to
>port more of them.
>
3Dfx cards were at one point very popular. An OS/2 port of Glide is
available. It works fairly well from what little I've seen. Show me
_one_ game OS/2 that uses it.

What I'm asking is, if no one utilized what is available, why should
I believe that someone will magically exploit other 3D solutions?


Michal